This is a term that I use for my collection of what I believe to be 1)old copies of rare and expensive firearms like the Colt Patterson, Colt Walker, etc. or 2) recently created firearms that has been aged in order to make it look like an original and not a copy and it was good enough to make me think it was an old copy rather than a recent creation.

I would never be able to afford the real thing but over the years I have collected some interesting, realistic looking, what I believe to be, older copies. I call them my collection of Wantabes. All except one I have owned for 10 to 15 years or so. One is a recent acquisition.

Several years ago I owned an old great Hawken, St. Louis marked, Plains Rifle. It was so good that prior to a Tulsa Gun show, I took some extra time and drove to a town outside of St. Louis and met with a person who I had been told was a great authority on Hawken Rifles. He was a gracious host and spent the afternoon with my wife and I showing us Hawken Rifles, pictures of Hawken Rifles and disassembling the rifle I brought and gave it a thorough inspection. In his opinion it had some correct parts but was not an original Hawken rifle for reasons with which I could understand and agree. He indicated that it was old and probably could fool all but only but a few experts on Hawken Plains Rifles. He was so thorough and knowledgable and I am so convinced that I have never questioned his conclusion. I had the Hawken along with the rest of my Wantabe collection on display at the Albuquerque Old West Show. Two experts disagreed with me calling it a Wantabe in my display and said it was the real thing. I did not argue with them but in my own mind knew it was just a great Wantabe. A close friend of mine wanted it real bad and it was the only longgun in my Wantabe collection so I traded it to him with the understanding they he knew it was a Wantabe. His reaction was the same as mine. That will be as close as he can come to the real thing.

Following are pictures and descriptions of my collection of six handguns that I consider to be old copies of expensive collectible firearms. I have shown them to some other dealers/collectors and some agree that some, if not all, are old copies. A couple dealer/collectors hold open the possibility that one or two of them may be the real thing. I do not think so and believe they are just very good old copies or very good more recent creations. Most of the rare old expensive US made original firearms were made about 140 to150 years ago so some true copies may have many years of aging on them. A friend of mine who collects antique art laughed and said gun collectors of US made firearms do not have that big of a problem. He has to worry if a great bronze he wants is the real 2000 year old item or a 1000 year old copy of it. I guess gun collectors several hundred years form now with have to deal with that issue.

The six below, if the real item and not a copy, would have a Flayderman value range of $129,750 to $357,500, if I added correctly. I do not believe one could purchase a real version of some of those firearms within that listed range. Flayderman’s 8th edition, as far as I know is the most current edition, was published in 2001. It is easy to understand why good copies intrique me.. I could not afford the real thing. These items are not for sale. They were added to my site for your review. Also to let you know that if I got fooled on any of them and any are recent creations, the extent that some will go to make an item look old and bring more money. This happens a lot in all firearms and particularly in Confederate Firearms, Wells Fargo marked firearms and Indian used firearms. Buyers must beware when purchasing a representative sample of one of these items. The most interesting one, if a recent fake and not an old copy, is that someone put a valuable old tin type and associated it with a famous person and then would have had to “age” a recently made Walker.

I was recently offered $2500 each for a couple of these items by a dealer when I was showing him my collection . I chuckled and said they were not for sale and if they were it would take more than that to buy one. He said “only I” would be fool enough to turn down that offer for copies. I said I would not argue that point and I indicated that collector/dealers are not known to always be rationale. We both chuckled and he did not increase the offer.

WB001-MODEL 1869 BREECH LOADING PISTOLIn 1869 Springfiled Armory sought to develop a large-caliber pistol. They made less than 50 of them in 50 caliber for field testing. The results were negative. There is an article that I cannot locate at the moment that stated the 50 pistols were sold to Hollywood for use in the Movies. The person who played Col. Travis in the John Wayne Alamo movie carried one of these. That is the only one I have noticed in watching the old western movies.

Flayderman states the firearms were made using the 1863 Springfield Lock, the markings on top of the 9 inch barrel are DEC/1869, and the stock is made in two parts with no attempt to match the grain of the wood. They also have brass triggerguard and butt cap. The one I have is 50 caliber, 1863 Springifield Lock, Dec/1869 mark on top of the barrel, brass triggerguard and brass butt capp. The breech block has the early markings but where 1868 should be the word SAMPLE is stamped. Nowhere have I read about the word SAMPLE being stamped on the top of the breech block above the eagle. So that is one deviation from expectation. Flayderman indicates it measures 18-1/4 inches in overall length. Mine measures 19-1/4 in overall length. A second deviation. Flayderman states the gun weighs 4-1/2 pounds and mine weighs 5 pounds. A third deviation. I have never seen one that I know is real. I have seen one other one that looked close to mine but did not have the correct markings and was 45-70 so I discounted that one as being real. The 8th Edition Flayderman Value Range for a correct version of this rare handgun is $12,500 in Very Good to $27,500 for excellent.Picture

WB001A-OTHER SIDE Picture

WB001B-DATE ON BARREL Picture

WB001C-HIGH ARCH Picture

WB002-CLARK AND SHERRARD REVOLVERDuring the Civil War this company made a contract with the State of Texas to deliver 44 caliber and 36 caliber dragoon type revolvers. It is believed only a handful was completed during the Civil War. I have also read that these guns intended for the Confederacy could be sold out the back door for more money, so that was one of the problems why they were not delivered during the Civil War. This is the Low-Hammer Spur model which is appropriate for the Tucker and Sherrard. Gary in his book on Confederate Revolvers states that the low-hammer spur type dragoon reveolver is sometimes referred to as the Morman Dragoon, because that style (not this gun) may have been made by Johathan Browning. Other experts such as Serven state he has tried to verify that for 30 years and has been unable to. Gary states that these low hammer spur model dragoons were made by Tucker, Clark and Sherrard and Browning never used that style. The serial number on this gun is 74 and that number appears on the backstrap, triggerguard, frame, barrel assembly and cylinder. The etched cylinder scene with the star and Texas Arms are not present and was never present on this cylinder. Some are shown in Gary’s book without the cylinder scene. The CLARK, SHERRARD & Co/ LANCASTER TEXAS marks on the barrel read from muzzle end to cylinder. The cylinder is 2 inches long which is the length of the Tucker and Sherrard and 1/4 inch shorted than the Colt Dragoon. This firearm resembles the Tucker and Sherrard except for the barrel markings. 8th Edition Flayderman Value Range $17,500 in fair to $45,000 in Very GoodPicture

WB002A-OTHER SIDE Picture

WB002B-NAME ON BARREL Picture

WB002C-CYLINDER Picture

WB003-CLARK AND SHERRARD REVOLVERThis is the second verson of the Tucker or Clark and Sherrard in my collection. This one has the regular hammer and etched cylinder showing the Star and TEXAS ARMS. The serial number is 290 and appears on the backstrap, frame, triggerguard and barrel assembly. The name of CLARK, SHERRARD & Co/LANCASTER TEXAS reads from the cylinder to the muzzle end. Just the opposite of WB002. The cylinder is 2-1/4 inche long which is okay for the Clark and Sherrard.. 8th Edition Flayderman Value Range $17,500 in fair to $45,000 in Very GoodPicture

WB003A-OTHER SIDE Picture

WB003B-NAME ON BARREL Picture

WB003C-STAR ON CYLINDER Picture

WB003D- CYLINDER OTHER SIDE Picture

WB004-COLT WALKER WITH TIN PHOTOThis is an interesting combination. A gentleman brought this combo to me several years ago. He showed me this original 6-1/2 x 8-1/2 tin type with a picture of a man who according the the writing on the back of they tin type, was James Henry Gallaway who fought in the battle of Boonville, Missouri and was taken prisoner. The info indicates he contacted tubercolosis while in prison and was released. He died three months after being released. The material also states that his relation established a store in Booneboro, Missouri, located in Howard County. The material also states that Daniel Boone married a Callaway. He said he found these items in an antique store in Missouui. As an old University of Missouri graduate, I found this rather interesting. This gun has heavy pitting on the frame. One can still see remnants of the cylinder scene. The serial number is 332 with no A B C or D and the address on top of the barrel reads ADDRESS SAML COLT NEW YORK It does not have the US/1847 by the lug on the right side. It is interesting that an old Tin Type was used as a part of the group to support the fact the gun was an old copy and not a recent creation. I have had this combo for several years and the person I got it from has tried on two occassions to get it back. 8th Edition Flayderman Value Range $37,500 in fair to $115,000 in Very Good (no finish)Picture

WB004A-OTHER SIDE Picture

WB004B-ADDRESS ON BARREL Picture

WB004C-CYLINDER AREA Picture

WB004D-PHOTO-TIN TYPE Picture

WB004E-WRITING ON BACK OF TIN TYPE Picture

WB004F-GUN AND PHOTO Picture

WB004G-GRIPS Picture

WB005-COLT SECOND MODEL DRAGOON REVOLVERThis is an interesting revolver. It has the MS marking on the triggerguard which represents being made for Massachusetts Militia. According to Flayderman only a few hundred were made with this mark and only a few are known to collectors. He goes on to state that the ones that are known normally appear in the serial range from 10000 to the early 11000’s. The serial number on this firearm is 10577 and is present on the backstrap, triggerguard, frame, cyliner and barrel assembly. The barrel address is ADDRESS SAML COLT NEW-YORK CITY. There is no Colt Patent on the left side of the frame. It has a brass front sight. Several years ago I took this firearm to a Beinfeld Show in Las Vegas and showed it to a collector who had a great display of dragoons set up at the show. He looked at it and felt the brass guard around the trigger was too wide. Some parts seemed alright. I wish I could see one with this MS markings. 8th Edition Flayderman Value Range $4750 in good to $30,000 in FinePicture

WB005A-OTHER SIDE Picture

WB005B-ADDRESS ON BARREL Picture

WB005C-MS MARKING Picture

WB006-COLT TEXAS PATERSON REVOLVERThis firearm has a 9 inch barrel, without attached loading lever, and walnut grips. The serial number is 183 and appears on many parts of the firearm as we have torn it down. I tried to show the serial on the trigger but the number did not show up in the photo. The cylinder scene is visible. This was my first purchase of a Wantabe. I had read a book on the Patersons where it talked about that firearm and some interesting copies. I then saw some real ones at Woolarock at Bartlesville, Oklahoma, the Phillips museum. Shortly therefore I saw this one and it looked so close to the real thing I had to purchase it. That had to be in the early 80’s. I have seen new Pattersons, other copies, and real ones since then but have never seen as good of old copy as this one. I believe Knox Baldwin had a good copy on his table four of five years ago but I could not buy it at that time. If I recall he wanted $3500 for it and I did not have that much money to buy a keeper copy at that time. I also saw a pretty good copy at the Benifeld Tent Show at the Sahara, but again too broke to acquire. (I had just spent a lot on some Native American items.) None of the rest I have seen come close to attracting me. Several years ago I had the good fortune to be at the Texas Gun Collectors Show in San Antonio and they had a large display of Patersons. Members of TGCA brought out there Patersons for being photographed and put in a book. It was something to see all those Patersons laying on either two or three 8 foot tables on the back wall of the show. Of course there were armed guards at both ends of the table. Look but do not touch. Just looking was a treat. 8th Edition Flayderman Value Range $40,000 in good to $95,000 in FinePicture

WB006A-OTHER SIDE Picture

WB006B-tTOP VIEW Picture

WB006C-TRIGGER AREA Picture